Thanks for listening to The Fat Psychologist Podcast. Join me to decode wellbeing research so it can have a real impact in our lives. Let's make decisions based on information we understand, not based what others say we should think of ourselves. I will explore themes that have been important in my life, as I search for happiness and belonging. This is our journey, I would love you to contribute too!

The Fat Psychologist Podcast

Fat bodies are political: Activism with Erica Sosa

If we really cared about health, we’d look at systems, not individuals.

Season 1 Episode 7

In this episode

In this powerful and deeply validating episode, Ninna Makrinov explores the political nature of fat bodies and the systems that shape our perceptions of them. Joined by the brilliant Erica Sosa, writer of Revolutionary Hotness, they unpack how fatness intersects with systems of power like religion, capitalism, and white supremacy. Together, they reflect on personal journeys, cultural expectations, and the radical act of simply existing in a marginalized body.

This episode is a call to embrace who we are, challenge diet culture, and reclaim our space unapologetically.

Guests

Erica Sosa believes in a world where fat femmes have the right to access pleasure and revel in their own brand of sexy. A world where the body is not a stand in for a moral judgment but a vessel to experience all life has to offer. In between her work as a bridal stylist and a paralegal, she writes on her Substack "Revolutionary Hotness" about fat femmes, erotic autonomy, and desirability politics.

Find Erica on Instagram and Threads @ericasosaofficial

Ninna Makrinov, aka The Fat Psychologist, is a teacher, trainer, coach and the author of The Fat Psychologist Podcast. A critical thinker by nature, Ninna is an activist who questions knowledge from a feminist, fat inclusive, disability informed, anti-racist perspective. By day, Ninna works as Assistant Professor (Research Methods) at the University of Warwick and Chair of Governors in two Birmingham Primary Schools. She has been an academic in Chile, Mexico and the UK. Ninna is passionate about the development and well-being of people and the organisations they are part of.

Ninna is a Senior Fellow of the Higher Education Academy. She holds a BSc Psychology and Professional Title in Organisational Psychology from Pontificia Universidad Católica de Chile, an MSc in Occupational Health Psychology from The University of Nottingham and a Masters in Business Administration from Tecnológico de Monterrey. She has most recently completed the Postgraduate Award (PGA) Curriculum Design in Higher Education and the PGA Technology Enhanced Learning at The University of Warwick.

In this episode, we talked about:

Aubrey Gordon and her podcast Maintenance Phase

Your Fat Friend - A film by Jeanie Finlay

A Strippers Guide Podcast - Anti-SWer Stigma and Anti-Fat Stigma

Transcript

[00:00:00] Ninna: Hi, I am Ninna Makrinov. I'm a psychologist, and yes, I am fat. I am The Fat Psychologist. I love who I am. In fact, I want everyone to embrace who they are. Just be you! Saying these sound easy. Doing it is hard. That's where my podcast comes in.

Welcome to the Fat Psychologist Podcast. Where we explore happiness at every size.

In today's episode, we're diving deep into the politics of bodies, how the world sees us, shapes us, and often tries to shrink us.

Inclusivity is at the heart of everything I do. I capture every word with care. You will find precise transcripts on my website and human checked captions wherever you listen.

If you like my podcast, subscribe and share and also rate it, do [00:01:00] it wherever you listen. You can also find me on Blue Sky and Instagram @thefatpsychologist.

Let's think back to this idea of body politics. This is a theme that has been coming up in different episodes from day one. I think it's really important that when I put myself out there as a podcaster and I call myself the fat psychologist. I am being political. I am making a point.

I actually believe very strongly that everything we do is political. There's no such thing as apolitical. By choosing to participate, we're political, but choosing not to participate, we're still political. By deciding to join existing movements, we're political. By choosing to not use the tools of our masters, we are still political. My approach to political is being very present and I'm making that effort on the podcast. [00:02:00] Being visible, being vulnerable, and hopefully giving you the space and the permission to also be yourself.

Growing up I did not feel the way I feel now. I thought my voice shouldn't be heard, and I was very scared of sharing it. However, I should have listened more closely to my best friend when I was around 17. She's called Adriana Larrain. Sadly we're not in touch anymore, so I loved her so much, but I was not a very good friend. She was then, at 17, a great poet. I assume she's still is. She's a psychologist as well. So we went to uni together and to start this episode, I would like to start by quoting one of her poems. She wrote. I say what you don't dare to think. I do what you don't dare to say. I am free while you feel restrained. [00:03:00] I live while dead you remain.

One of the things I admired about Adriana growing up is that she genuinely, to me, came across as someone who strongly believed in who she was. I would've followed her almost anywhere. And she used that power in a really positive way.

That's also to me, a really important balance. It's owning who we are in respect to what others are, owning what we believe in respect to what others believe. But also, going back to that idea of balance, on checking that our beliefs are based on evidence, based on truth, because I still believe that there is a truth out there, some of which we might not be able to access or know, but part of this journey has to do [00:04:00] with looking at the evidence of what wellbeing is, of what our bodies should be doing. Doing that includes looking at literature, so we have been reviewing some academic articles together and it also includes conducting our own research. So talking to people and learning through the lived experiences of others.

Hence, I am super excited that today I'm joined by the brilliant Erica Sosa. Erica is the writer of the Revolutionary Hotness Substack. She's a fat liberation advocate and an unapologetic femme. I loved talking to her so much that you will see her in two episodes in a row.

Today we will unpack how fatness intersects with systems of power, such as religion, capitalism, and white [00:05:00] supremacy, and how simply existing in a marginalized body becomes a political act. We will discuss childhood messages and current messages that lead to healthcare bias. We will think about cultural expectations and why we have chosen personal resistance. Keep listening because this conversation is raw, real, and deeply validating.

Hi Erica. Thanks for joining

I'm so thankful that you put your name forward.

Erica: I write a newsletter on Substack called Revolutionary Hotness. The name was kind of given to me by a friend. She said that I embody a revolutionary hotness by just, you know, being myself and being on the internet out loud as a fat femme and advocating for other fat femmes to be themselves out loud.

I've been examining the idea of desirability politics and erotic autonomy for fat [00:06:00] femmes we're relegated to this position of we should just be grateful that anybody finds us hot. When that's such a, it's, uh, oh. It's such a tool of the patriarchy and the male gaze that it, it's annoying, for lack of a better word.

It's very annoying.

Ninna: Yeah, absolutely. And so much.

I was reading some of your entries and some quotes from what you've written.

I was following you already on Instagram and when I see you on Instagram, I go like, oh yeah, I can be hot too.

[00:06:35] Personal journeys to body acceptance

Ninna: I've gone through a really long period of getting to accepting myself as I am, but I'm much older, I think, than you are.

I'm 46, I think this year. I always lose track of my age and I think I must have been like 35 by the time I go in, like, actually, I could be fine as I am.

Erica: (laughs).

Ninna: Yeah, so it's great to have your voice there and it really, at least to me, it [00:07:00] does mean a lot.

Erica: Thank you so much. Yeah, I think I was in my late twenties and I was like, you know what? I'm just so tired of viewing my body as detriment, this enemies against each other when I have to be in this body. I wrote about this like in my first entry. My body looks like my aunts, it looks like my grandparents, it looks like my family. So why do I hate something that looks like everybody else around me? Just because, you know, people on TV or people on the internet say that you should look like a Coke bottle, essentially.

Ninna: And for those who are listening to us rather than seeing us. How would you describe yourself?

Erica: So I'm five foot. I am a very round person. I would say, um, Puerto Rican. So like lots of big, curly, hairy. Everything about me is very [00:08:00] big and loud and I really wouldn't have it any other way.

Ninna: I was reflecting on that, what you're saying, and I'm loud and i've always been. I wasn't too big when I was a child, but I was considered big, if that makes sense.

And I was always told I was too loud. I had to shrink myself physically I suppose I love to be the center of attention, hence I'm a teacher, hence the podcast. And that and I love seeing other people like you all of that. Because, yeah lot.

Erica: It does.

I just think of who benefits by us quieting ourselves and shrinking ourselves, and how much we're taking out of the world by asking small girl children, to be quieter, to be smaller, to not take up as to not It's really harmful and people don't see it that way.

Ninna (she/her): dunno if you'd agree with this, but Also the energy and the time we waste [00:09:00] in trying to fit in or trying to change our bodies, and then all that energy, all that power we could be using to change the world, which is I think what we are doing now. But I know for years and years I used that to try to fit in in a world that It's just a form

Erica: Absolutely.

[00:09:22] Cultural and religious influences

Ninna: but, um, so I grew up in Chile, so although I'm not Latina by looks, I'm kind of Latina by my grandparents migrated from my dad's side, great-grandparents from my mom's side, and I was born and raised in Chile.

I then lived in the UK and then I lived in Mexico for eight years and then I came back to the UK. And part of that is because here I feel there's less fat oppression than in Chile and in Mexico, which different cultures.

And I imagine in America that's as well,

Erica: I grew up in a [00:10:00] rural town in South Carolina, so like kind of the buckle of the Bible Belt.. . A real quick history, well, not history, but a quick explanation about the bible Belt. For

Ninna: Go for it.

Erica: about know, it's very defined by evangelical Christianity, specifically Southern Baptist. So they take the Bible not as literature, but as literal instructions from God, except the stuff they don't like, like of course you could eat seafood. We don't care about that. But everything else is direct from God. my religious history also had a big impact on how I viewed my body. 'cause I went to a very white church and a very white Southern Baptist church is kind of like a cousin of the Puritans is the best way to describe it. So your body was its own statement of, oh, clearly the devil's got its mark on you if you're in a larger body, 'cause that means you're indulging gluttony and sloth, lust probably. The devil's [00:11:00] got you. He's probably got you in all these things.

[00:11:01] Systems of oppression

Ninna: And um, and We're both laughing at it 'cause you either laugh...

puritanism and all the movements that came at the same time with immigration and slavery.

They were also trying to divide themselves from these other bodies that looked different. So being thin was a form of puritanism, was a form of ascetic, which actually exist in many cultures.

But then there's also these kind of the good fats and the bad fats.

So you can be a good fat if you're dieting and you're proving to people that you're trying.

I'm not that anymore. I'm genuinely a really bad because like, I enjoy my food, it's nice and I really like my body, I go like gonna the swimming pool. So I don't know if that resonates with your experience too.

Erica: It does. So I wearing love not clothes I really annoy the Southern Baptist that [00:12:00] I live among because I pole dance. I like to go out and take pictures in a bikini. I don't really for being apologise I'm not counting calories... everything that I was doing when I was in the church. So I'm sure a lot of us have stories of, I was at Weight Watchers as an 8-year-old, and curves and all that stuff. That was also facilitated through the church for women who wanted to lose weight because it was always a constant battle of how much smaller can you get.

now I do relish in being a bad fat. I love cheeseburgers. They're amazing. But I also love salads. Like I love food in all of its form. I read cookbooks for fun because just reading about food is very exciting to me. I love the way that people describe taste and how they came to find out different flavors go together.

I'll talk unapologetically about being sexy. I talk about how much I love taking pictures in [00:13:00] lingerie or things like that. So I am a bad fat and that I cannot be converted to being a good fat again.

Ninna: I love that. I mean, I think that's...

we all can do whatever we want with our bodies, and I think that's really important to me.

I still worry that so many people, particularly women, but men as well, suffer so much with trying to adapt to the diet culture rather than just owning whoever we are, whatever size we are.

If we're fat, we're fat. If we... I hate the word losing weight 'cause in my experience, it's never been losing weight. It's always been a huge effort to say I, I might go down in my weight because I have a disease or like, some people have cancer and they, they go really.

That's all okay. So whatever happens with each person's body is okay, but I really worry about myself doing it because I'm trying to conform and not accepting myself. And I worry...

[00:13:54] Our bodies are political

Erica: Which if you deeply care about fat, liberation and body [00:14:00] justice, our bodies are inherently political. Once you step outside these margins of being white, being thin, and if you center your marginalized identities and see how it impacts others. Every move you then do is political. So it's very easy to then get in the mindset of "I've gained some weight. I don't like how my clothes feel right now. I don't really wanna buy new clothes". So I can try to then reconfigure my body so it's the same as it was before this, but then that feels like a betrayal to your own ethics. I think if we view our body as neutral the way we really wanna see it within fat liberation, then it is just something that, you know, bodies change and you don't have to take pills to change it back .

[00:14:51] Health, time poverty and structural barriers

Erica: I noticed for example, like I tend to gain some weight when I'm stressed. Like I'm currently working two jobs. I don't really have time to like move the way I wanna move, [00:15:00] so my clothes are fitting tighter. I don't love that. And I was talking about it with my doctor who's not super concerned, but he's like, you have to understand the reality is that you are now time poor. So your body is reflecting the stress that you're under. And that's okay, it's just something that we'll deal with once you have some more time back and it's not a really big issue to your health.

Ninna: exactly shows, that for not everyone, but for many people who live in bigger bodies, there are aspects that kind of lead...

healthy food, like you go to a restaurant to eat a salad, it's more expensive than going to a restaurant, having... if we are time poor, then we exercise less because there are other things we need to do. So I've been a solo mom with two autistic children.

When do I manage to go to the gym when I work full time?

So understanding the experiences of people are more complex than what we believe them to be, I think is really...

Erica: this would have to require people to step outside their own step [00:16:00] and think about the systems that we all live under and how it affects our bodies, not just in how they look physically, but how they feel. So, you know, like you said, I work two jobs, it's not just about like how much time I have to go to the gym. It's how much time do I have to cook, which is not a lot of time, how much energy and basically pain? 'Cause part of it, one of the jobs I stand on my feet all day, so is my body in too much pain for me to stand on my feet for another couple of hours to meal prep. I'm not getting enough rest. So that's gonna show too, you know.

I do this so I can survive and provide for myself. But all people are seeing is the size of my body and my body tells the story of what circumstances I'm in right now.

[00:16:53] It't not about health

Erica: And if people

Ninna (she/her): Yeah.

Erica: busy trying to figure out the secret sauce what makes fat [00:17:00] people fat, that is a useless question to ask, but if we're really going to be examining it, we shouldn't be blaming it on the individual itself. We should be looking at, like I said, these systems that we all have to live under and what brought us to this point. We gotta go in the way, way back machine colonialism. We gotta look at capitalism, we gotta look at white supremacy, everything. And if we were really serious about people's health as what they claim to be when they talk about fatness. Then we would look at that stuff and try to improve people's lives overall.

Ninna: And it wouldn't matter what size we are, as long as we can I mean everyone, I'm not just saying now fat people, but if everyone can have access to good healthcare that is free or affordable or at point of delivery service as we have in the UK, although it's not great at the moment, but, but at least it's there.

and if we could all have access to systems [00:18:00] to support us and, and that's not only physical health, but mental health as well.

and people, or, uh,

people forget, or I even, I forget, is that part of living in the word in our case, as a fat woman, but also in characteristics that are, or, or groups that are marginalized, has also an impact on our mental health because of the fact that we're marginalized in itself.

So. If we really cared, we would just accept people, everyone, as we are and go from there, I suppose.

[00:18:35] Is oppression on the rise?

Erica: That would be ideal. Um, but I think Aubrey Gordon and probably other authors as well have pointed out probably before 2024, even before 2016, it wasn't acceptable to be blatantly racist. That has since obviously changed, but they could substitute fatness as a way to express their racist [00:19:00] and misogynistic point of views. Now that Donald Trump is in office and, don't really wanna go down like how bleak I think it's gonna be, but now that he's in office, it's kind of no holds bar, but they can still use fatness to elevate their racism and misogyny more than before.

Ninna: We can see the same in the UK where the Brexit vote: we don't want these migrants, we don't want people who are different.

And the code is we don't want black people. Hence we also don't want anyone who's different to us.

And that then includes, "oh, we can't say all these things, those are protected characteristics. So you're right. fat

who, ho puff.

that's something we can't say because we're

Erica: I've kind of taken my doctor's view of it, which he's a shockingly for being in the south and for being a cis white man. Like usually it's just like, you gotta lose some weight, get over it. he's like, it's, your body's a reflection of the circumstances you're in and the genetics that you have, so when you change the circumstances, your body will likely [00:20:00] change, but as it is right now, you're fine. And that's kinda how I feel like. wanna view your body as You may way, but do you wanna view it because this is how you feel, you need to look as a femme identifying person or because this is how you want your body to feel. Like I, I just said, I want my clothes to be not as tight.

Ninna: I got ill, and that's reduc ed...

before that I was swimming every day. I was still the same size

and I started going to the gym. And the first time I go to the gym instructor who's not as good as your doctor, 'cause most people are not went like, oh, I can help you lose weight. And I'm like, no, no wait. I'm not here to lose weight. If I lose weight as part of it, it's okay. But that's not the point. I wanna become stronger because being stronger is really important for my long-term health, and and he got it, when I stopped him, he did get it. So that was positive because this constant

I suppose, I mean at least i've had all my life of, I go to a doctor, much in the oh, [00:21:00] but whatever you have, you need to lose weight first or go

And it's like, it's not about enjoying movement, it's about the aim of shrinking.

[00:21:09] Challenging diet culture

Erica: I was thinking about this last night, about how freeing it is to be in a body that's not consumed with diet culture. I don't feel fat, and I'm using air quotes for people who are just listening, in the way that diet culture believes we should feel in our bodies as a fat person. And the margins are so weight we can actually carry around before we're given the label of fat. But in most days, like I feel in a body. And I inhabit this body and move about the world and think about a lot of other think besides my body, because just sitting around and talking about weight loss is the most boring thing in the world.

I also work as a bridal stylist, so that is my part-time [00:22:00] job. Looks are very much the center of what we deal with of And I hear the comments a lot of, oh my, the thing now is like, my back is just big. And I'm like, you know, it's the dress. We could just go up a size, formal wear is just cut different. So the size is truly just a number.

Or I also hear, I promise I'm gonna lose weight. I'm doing blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm thinking this is the most boring conversation. I've ever had, like you're getting put in these wedding dresses, laced up, buttoned up, whatever the dress is, and instead of talking to me about instead of your wedding, your fiance, how y'all met, you wanna talk about your weight loss program? Okay.

[00:22:42] Outro

Ninna: I did listen to a podcast episode where you were co-hosting, interviewed, uh, Aubrey as well.

So do you wanna tell us about that one too? that's a here for those of you people who like

Erica: Yes, so I was also a season seven cohost [00:23:00] on a stripper's guide. I'm not sure if it's still listed... Oh,

Ninna: It's still there.

Erica: Um, it is still there as a stripper's guide. Um, season seven. I was a co-host for that season alone and we did interview Aubrey Gordon and I, um, I did not play it cool 'cause I was very excited.

Ninna: I don't think I would play cool either. I really wouldn't have showing of the movie, uh, Your Fat Friend I it, I, I rented it, like to watch with a friend and I was there sitting crying like, it's so good. And it's so true.

Erica: Yes.

Ninna: watch it.

Erica: When she came on the screen, I was literally like, hands on my face, just, oh my God.

Ninna: I mean, I was so impressed you got her. 'cause I, to me it's like, I haven't even asked her, but I'm like, ungettable So If our listeners wanted [00:24:00] to find you, where can they find you?

Erica: You can find me on Instagram and Threads. Erica Sosa, E-R-I-C-A-S-O-S-A official, I yap a lot on Threads and I talk a lot on Instagram as well. I'm also on Substack, revolutionary hotness. I'm not as active as I would like to be, but as we mentioned a couple times, I work a couple jobs, so I'm doing my best.

I show up how I can.

Ninna: I mean, just the fact that you're doing anything is amazing. 'cause yeah, like two jobs and social media amazing.

I do appreciate how much an hour of chatting with me means.

Erica: So thank you so, so much for having me. I hope you have a good rest of your day.

Ninna: How much did you love Erica? I loved her. It was so much fun speaking to her that she's going to be with me in the next episode too. We just recorded two in a row. On that episode, we [00:25:00] will be talking about revolutionary hotness, desire and pleasure, particularly from our perspective as fat women.

If you like my podcast, subscribe, rate, and share with your friends.

You can also find me on Instagram, Bluesky and Threads @thefatpsychologist. I am posting this as a video on YouTube.

I am actively looking for sponsors. Ideally, I would like a sponsor that can do the whole season, I plan to do 26 episodes this season, and where I can actually develop a relationship with that brand. That means that I need a brand whose values align to mine. I am currently thinking maybe a fashion brand that does big sizes, the fashion brands I love and wear would be brilliant. So I'm contacting you directly, but if [00:26:00] you have a contact that I can use, do let me know. Or if you are that person, please contact me.

You can also find the link through my website and donate whatever you can to make this dream come true. Go to Buy me a Coffee and donate whatever you can to continue making this podcast speak for all of us. If you want to be on the podcast, contact me. I put a note on Threads and I have fantastic people coming through. That's how I met Erica. And you can see we met for the first time today and our conversation was amazing.

Your story is important to me. Let's share it.

This episode was produced, edited, and presented by Ninna Makrinov.​

Show Notes